I went to my small group tonight. It's always interesting because you never know what you're going to get. I absolutely love the people in my small group. It's so diverse and full of different, conflicting opinions. When someone says something I don't necessarily agree with, I generally bite my tongue. I do this because there are other people there with opinions that are generally similar to mine who generally handle situations with more grace than I could. However, I couldn't hold it in on this night.
I was faced with how to address the statement "Well, if you are caught in the act of sin when Christ returns you are absolutely going to hell." I was told that the week before the same person had proclaimed that they had stopped sinning..or doesn't sin anymore...or something to that affect.
How do you respond to that? How does someone respond to someone with such a strong will that they won't let you get a word in edgewise? Better yet, how does anybody respond to someone arrogant enough to think that they're free from their "sin nature"?
I'm sorry. I couldn't let it go.
My response was something to the affect of "because of our 'sin nature' we are in a constant state of sin, aren't we? I don't know about you, but if your theory is correct I'm screwed." I tried to sit quietly while everyone laughed...except the person I was addressing. I then said "If we all go to hell if we're caught in the act of a sin, then why am I even a minister?" The person responded with "well, the word warns about wolves disguised in sheep's clothing." I was perplexed and astonished that someone had, to my face, referred to me as a "false teacher" in so many words.
Now don't get me wrong, I've been regarded as a nut on more than one occasion. In fact, I've even had people question my teaching abilities/style. But come freaking on...I mean I guess Christ's blood just wasn't sufficient enough to take care of those last couple of sins one might commit just as Christ steps down from his thrown to meet his church in the sky.
Non-Christians hate us. Christians also hate us...but that's not because we're ministers, it's because I'm finding that Christians have been led into this sick form of intolerance to the point that they hate anyone that isn't like them. You've got to be freaking kidding me. How is the church supposed to love when churches don't allow people to join their communities until they've gone through an evaluation period. It's not a freaking job. You don't need to conduct a freaking interview.
Guess what, even if you're a Christian you still sin. In fact, you're probably tempted to sin more than the average unbeliever. Guess what, the only difference is that you've been justified, you've been redeemed, you've been reconciled. Also, It's not by any of your own doing, so we can dispense with that thought right now.
It makes me so freaking mad when I see cocky Christians taking credit for their freaking morality. I'm starting to hate the idea of Christianity as an institution. "Christians" make me want to drink. All the hypocrisy, gossip, backstabbing, pride... Guess what, you suck! You suck when compared to the standard you're called to live up to. You can't be perfect..ever. Get over yourself.
God, help us to remember that you are the giver of salvation. Do away with our cocky attitudes. Show us the meaning of redemption. Draw us near to you, and give us the faith to believe that ALL of our sins are covered by the blood of your son. Amen.
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14 comments:
is this a byx small group? if so i have a good idea of who this is. but still...
its silly.
i think jesus blood was enough.
for sure man...and it comes from bad teaching in the churches as well, from pastors and teachers that either don't know how to teach or that just won't teach the correct doctrine. we also have to be careful not to fall on the other side of pride, thinking that we have "it all figured out" and that others are just blind to the truth of the doctrine of grace, sin, or any other biblical teaching. of course you know this, but it is by the grace of God that we even have the mind and spirit willing to accept such a humiliating truth, because on our own there is no way we would consider ourselves so lowly. i know that's where my pride comes out the most is when i think i know so much more and better than these "christians" who are idiots...who are also children of God, if they truly profess Christ, which i a whole other discussion, lol. good post
no, not byx.
It has nothing to do with intolerance and everything to do with ignorance. We do need to continuously check our own doctrine. Still, though, there are some basics that have been lost post-reformation.
Grace- Jesus' blood. It amazes me how many people/denominations try to undo grace. People like that just need love and good doctrine.
Keep loving him.
just a thought... you said it is our sinful nature still present in us after we receive Christ? Well... if you still have a wretched sinful nature in you after being transformed by Christ ... what exactly did Christ do to you?
not starting a fight or attacking you bro. Just saying that while Christians may still SIN it isn't because of our sinful nature. That was transformed by Christ when our eternal life began. 2 Cor 5:17
Ryan,
First of all: thank you for your comment.
I would have to say that you are absolutely right. We both define 'sin nature' the same way, and Christ does pretty much say "out with the old, and in with the new" when you enter into a state of salvation. What I failed to articulate in my post is a slight difference in the way I defined 'sin nature' in this specific context. There is no way around saying that even though we are saved by grace we still sin. It is still in our character to physically commit acts that are unpleasing to our Lord. Not only that, but we don't just sin every once in a while. We sin continuously. That is the point I was making.
The new testament very clearly says that the church is made to be 'the righteousness of God.' There is clearly an outward transformation, but I think more than that, the transformation comes on another level. It's a renewing of our minds...of the way we think. we no longer think "o damn, if i sin i'm screwed." we know that we will sin, but we also know that the blood Christ shed is sufficient for all of our sins. that's the transformation that is spoken of in 2 Corinthians.
Finally, I have to ask how you came across this blog. It is refreshing to see that someone outside of my circle frequents my page. cheers, friend!
And taking all of scripture into account, we must remember that sin is always with us. Romans 7:21-23 says, "So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God,in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members."
We still carry flesh and flesh is sinful, until perfected by God. Paul in no way suggests that this perfect occurs before the parousia. While our "inner being" desires God, our flesh still desires sin.
Seek the friendship of God, it is more than enough for us.
Hi there Michael. I'm another outsider who just stumbled upon your blog! Grace, grace and more grace I say! Grace makes God so attractive and approachable! I used to wrestle with this whole question about christian's and the sinful nature and why christians still sin. But I really felt God answered alot of these questions for me in a very satisfactory and biblical way that afterwards I just thought how haven't I seen that in scripture before. I ended up writing a short book called 'Do Christians still have a sinful nature?' I'm not trying to promote it because I've made it available online for free! I just thought you might be interested. http://www.citychurchinternational.info/storage/ryanrufusbook_001.pdf
Hope the link works!
Bless you mate!
Ryan
Sorry that was:
http://www.citychurchinternational.
info/storage/ryanrufusbook_001.pdf
Hi there Michael. I'm another outsider who just stumbled upon your blog! Grace, grace and more grace I say! Grace makes God so attractive and approachable! I used to wrestle with this whole question about christian's and the sinful nature and why christians still sin. But I really felt God answered alot of these questions for me in a very satisfactory and biblical way that afterwards I just thought how haven't I seen that in scripture before. I ended up writing a short book called 'Do Christians still have a sinful nature?' I'm not trying to promote it because I've made it available online for free! I just thought you might be interested. http://www.citychurchinternational.info/storage/ryanrufusbook_001.pdf
Hope the link works!
Bless you mate!
Ryan
Thanks for this post in your blog! This is a doctrine that needs to be reviewed often. Peter's examples alone (denying Christ, avoiding gentile Christians when Jewish converts are around) are evidence that we are still susceptible to temptation, but Christ's blood is more than adequate to wipe clean the scarlet robes of iniquity white as snow.
Carl
I'm not good with words but I challenge you back up what you say with scripture. I hear what you think but is this what God thinks? Where does it say in scripture that as believers in Jesus Christ we are to live in the sinful nature or even that its ok to sin. CB said romans 7:21-23 says that its ok to sin. This is perfect example how we take text out of context. In case CB is not aware of the defintion of context here it is: It simply means that the text before and after is what gives it the meaning. So look at the rest of Romans and see if its ok to sin or that we as believers in Jesus Christ are to live in the sinful nature. And please remember as teachers you will be held accountable for what you teach. You will have to stand before God give an account of all your actions. Make sure you have it right. I believe your hearts are on the right road so please keep up the good fight.
God Bless
Hi, just read your blog and as a Christian who has been so aware for 2 years that I need my mind renewed in the area of the Old Covenant vs. New Covenant (i.e. Law vs. Grace). By no one's fault, we have all been exposed to a toxic cocktail which mixes OC with NC which goes something like this: God loves you and sent Jesus to die on your behalf to take away your sin.....BUT work hard to make sure that you do not sin otherwise you will be under condemnation....Please give us a break!! God did, in the form of total forgiveness, enable us to enter freely into 'The Father's House' at any time, fully freed from the effects of sin, today, tomorrow and forever...that is how far He has separated our sins from us, to allow us to live in freedom. Any time we feel that we are coming under condemnation, it is not from God, it is from 'the accuser of the brethren'.
It has taken 2 years to become saturated with the knowledge of His Grace as it takes time to get rid of the old and embrace the real Truth. A preacher in Hong Kong has helped a lot, Rob Rufus, from City Church International. All of the messages are available free from the website....have a look and a listen....
Brother in Christ,
Hi guys just another outsider. With regards to 'christians sinning'. Yes, we do fall short from time to time, however, we have power over sin! God doesn't remove our freewill, we still have a choice to do what right and pleasing to God or disobey Him. Grace enables us to do that, titus 2:11-15. Saying the we still have a sinful nature can and in most cases allows christians to make exceptions to do things they KNOW they shouldn't be doing. The fact that we now have power over sin, doesn't give us any excuse to want to sin. If anything we shouldn't have an inclination to lust over the things we used to lust over. the blood of Jesus does wash us clean, but it isn't an excuse to sin. we rely on the process of santification and renewing of our minds through the Word friends.
Just live according to the Word friends.
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